We are in for a fascinating weekend in Germany as we look to see whether Red Bull has its nose in front on all circuits now or whether Silverstone flattered their car.
But behind the scenes in Germany will be very interesting as well as the latest developments in the ongoing row over next year’s rules come into play.
Today’s development is a series of letters from FIA president Max Mosley to the Formula One Teams Association, to the non-FOTA teams; Williams and Force India and to the three new teams; USF1, Manor and Campos.
To the non-FOTA teams Mosley emphasises that they are part of the decision making process because,
“No change can be made to the published regulations without the agreement of all confirmed entrants. As a result, changes to the 2010 regulations require your agreement and consent.”
This gives this long running saga a new twist. in June Mosley was all for the FOTA teams signing up for 2010 and then changing the rules from within. Instead FOTA announced a breakaway series and forced Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone around the table to agree a peace deal. As far as FOTA were concerned the deal agreed in Paris was for them to go away and sort out the rules for 2010 among themselves, which would then be ratified by the FIA. This meant the death knell of the budget cap, the very reason why the new teams signed up.
But now they find that it will not be as simple as that. So at the meeting in Germany this weekend we will have three new teams plus two existing ones who signed up for a £40 million budget cap, asking the FOTA teams exactly how much they propose to slash budgets by and how they propose to police cost control.
What will enrage the FOTA teams is that potentially you could have the three new teams, who have never turned a wheel in F1 and who’s ability to stand the heat in this particular kitchen is yet to be proven, able to veto rules which FOTA has devoted thousands of hours developing.
My sense during Silverstone weekend was that the new teams didn’t want a fight with FOTA and just wanted to get on with it.
Here they are being set on a potential collision course because if the costs are significantly higher than £40 million with no real prospect of them being able to survive and prosper then they will find it hard to agree.
allenonf1.wordpress.com 
Like I thought at the time: there was no reason to cheer the agreement reached in June. Now after all of that, the only thing that has changed is that the pressure for the salary cap will be from inside FOTA, not the FIA. And with that victory, why would Max resign?
I agree totally – breakaway anyone?
Seconded!!!!
For the people who disagreed with the Bernie comment that ‘dictators get things done’, they now get their wish and see how much better a democracy will be at getting things done.
James,
So does it mean that Fota can also backtrack and breakaway? If Max can keep backtracking, why can’t they?
It seems like a well thought-out delay tactic by Max to get them to come back to the negotiating table time and again – until it is too late for the breakaway to be properly organized.
I cannot help but feel that Fota is being duped yet again and I can’t speak for other fans, but this fan is losing patience with all the politics and mind games.
I know Fota doesn’t want to come across as losing all that history from F1 as a result of the breakaway – even a majority of fans supported their move. But as the story of “the boy who cried wolf” too many a time, I am sure fans will start to doubt what Fota say in future – esp when it may escalate into another breakaway threat.
When push comes to shove, FOTA steps back. Bernie will continue to bully them.
Bernie and the teams are all friends and have common business interests, so I dont see them disagreeing seriously.
Its clear that Mosley has no intention of keeping any of the promises that he has made so why should Fota? Rather than engaging Mosley or Bernie in there favorite game, ie whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine, Fota should try to convince members of FIA that kicking Mosley out is in their best interest. Constructors should have enough influence to win votes against Mosley as member nations are probably already sick of him as well anyway…
Why? What good is the FIA? They have given us stewards that decide before hearing radio recordings or reviewing video. They have given us the Spa 2008 decision, the “Mass Dampers are movable aero devices decision”, when is a chicane not a chicane etc. Throw out the whole lot and let them have their desired sado-masochist ruler that they affirmed last year. They add nothing, with or without Max.
I’m starting to move my thinking towards Max on this one. The FOTA Teams have too much of a vested interest in winning to make genuine changes that “level the field” – and the means cutting costs.
Like him or loathe him, Max is right. Of course, he’s borderline maniac (and I’m not sure from which side), but he really is the most outstanding political operator of a generation. It’s time FOTA gave up and either race under the governing body’s direction or get on with doing something else.
It’s a classic Max divide and conquer strategy. Can’t break the FOTA union – so let’s set about getting the new boys opposing FOTA opposing Williams/Force India.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I hope all 13 teams have an agreement and present their agreed rules to the FIA for ratification.
P.S. Vote Ari!!!
Hmm. So Max likes unanimous decisions…especially those taken by himself. And if that doesn’t work, the FIA is happy with its own simple majorities.
Surely it can’t be long before CVC takes a unanimous decision of its own…
It seems to me both sets of regulations have been passed and endorsed by the FIA and WMSC. Therefore we have a 2 teir f1 rules. The thing is, the FOTA teams entered under one agreement, if that agreement is not honoured they can leave as can the other teams.
I read an interesting article on pitpass.com regarding the ownership of the f1 name, and it seems to me if FOTA want to start there own champioship they can still use the term f1. Because f1 is a generic term, There is f1 powerboat racing and bernie does not control that. It will be legal argument but i think it comes down to what does f1 name present.
Personally as much as a second championship is not the best option i think for all teams they are best telling the FIA and Bernie where to go and start there own f1. Its is clear to me that if a new series starts f1 will not survive and the new series will make more then enough money to ensure there is even distribution of money. In accordance with various laws the FIA must offer there services to sanction the series, but the new teams control it. All money made goes to the teams and not a bunch of suits behind the scenes.
It really is time to have a new FIA president.
Ari Vatanen would surely do a good job, but if you haven’t read it already, go and read Autosport’s article which details the ‘election’ procedure the FIA has in place. Every candidate has to nominate a cabinet of 22 people which has to include important FIA people.
So technically the FIA is democratic…. but only technically!
The FIA should just change the name of the championship from “F1” to “MaxMess” – much more appropriate and on that people don’t have to go racing at all, just talk and argue about it until everyone gets bored and starts watching something else. There, 2010 regs sorted. Well done Max!
Will this dispute ever end… I thought we had heard the end of all the disputes… FOTA please set up a new championship independant of Bernie & Max….
Oh so Max has changed his tune 180 degrees, when he changed the rules without the teams consent it was ok but now the teams are looking at the rules all the entrants must be unanimous.
This is why Max was in charge of FIA. You now have a situation where 5 teams want cost-cutting more than the rest, and a resolution must be found to accommodate them. It would be difficult for FOTA to claim that they’re the friendly ones and then subsequently say that they’re in charge of the rules and the other teams have no scope in discussions of them, or throw them out because they do! This should give some insight into how open FOTA are, or whether they’re just a cartel protecting their own interests.
The five other teams should sign up to FOTA. It is ridiculous to have a FOTA organisation with eight teams only out of thirteen. A unified FOTA gets results. Look at what happened earlier this year re: winner takes all system. A breakaway was never feasible with Williams remaining in the FIA Formula One World Championship. Alongside McLaren and Ferrari they are the most important team in the championship. They need to get back into FOTA to help shape the rules.
Max and Bernie knew they were on to something when they still had Williams in their championship but if Williams had stuck with FOTA throughout the breakaway would have been a bigger threat.
I hope the breakaway still doesn’t happen. It is imperative that Williams and Force India along with Manor, Campos and USF1 join FOTA as soon as possible. When this happens all breakaway rumours should cease and FOTA can shape the rules.
I can not imagine what FOTA were thinking when they decided to not form a breakaway series and instead enter into an ‘agreement’ with FOM and the FIA.
How many times must the FOM/FIA alliance prove themselves to be untrustworthy and to be acting outside of the interests of F1 before FOTA will realise that there is no agreement to be had from either FOM or the FIA.
There is a fable about a frog and a scorpion and crossing a river. The truth here of course is that FOTA are only the frog so long as they choose to be and the sooner they realise that the scorpion can’t help being the scorpion and the consequences of carrying it are inevitable and unavoidable, the better for all.
In my mind FOTA’s public silence in response Max Mosely’s threat to rerun for president was the most powerfull statement they could make. They rose above it and appeared stronger for it. They simply need to do the same again and quietly work together.
They have already agreed to help the new teams, they just need to deliver on that promise. You would assume the new teams wont want to make enemies of FOTA before they start.
I wouldn’t be suprised to see Williams and Force India being admitted back into FOTA fairly soon. FOTA needs them onside if Max Mosely is continuing to mess around.
this was *always* going to happen. hence why i, and i think a lot of others, were so disappointed that FOTA went back on their threat to break away from Max and instead signed up with the FIA again. the guy cannot be trusted!
max made it clear that rules were only ever going to be changed by unanimous agreement of all teams, he never mentioned FOTA teams. so it was always clear what he was going to do – put a few minnows in there (using a $1.2m cosworth contract to vet the teams allegiance) that were so grateful to be included in F1 that they will act on his behalf in screwing every genuine goal of FOTA.
as soon as max said he was going to ignore what he said and stand again (but he’s not a dictator remember, he’s coming back to prove that) against the wishes of everyone else (bar alan donnelly and tony purnell) FOTA should have done what they promised the first time, and said that ok they would leave again. still, i guess by then they had signed on the dotted line, and are honouring their word. shame the honour is only on one side…
I read this more as a call to the larger FOTA teams to “top up” the smaller teams.
By this, I mean that a new team has to go out and get funding for the originally capped budget (€40 million), but they can approach one of the larger teams (e.g. Ferrari, Mercedes, Toyota, Renault) to ask for either funding, subsidised parts or “technical assistance” to bring the team up to competitive parity with the established teams.
I’m sure that those three teams would soon fall in line with FOTA if they received gearboxes, wind tunnel usage and maybe one or two drivers on free loan?
I get the impression that USF1 is probably above all of this by now anyway as their preparation appears to be further advanced than the others.
So what are we going to get to decide as fans in correspondence with FOTA? I really hope something better can be decided than the 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 system if that’s on the table.
Ok so possibly the majority of fans don’t like what I would favour – winner-takes-all (which I think would make this year’s championship more interesting at present – Vettel would just have to win races rather than hope Button fails to finish) – but what is 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 achieving that 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 isn’t? One more point between first and second.. whoopdy doo-daa?!?
So all the new teams are allowed veto’s on rule changes when ferraris right of veto was ignored in regard to budget caps
the fia really need to sort themselves out
this is yet another example of inconsistency
Erm… but I thought the point was the regs were to be as for 2009 (no budget cap as part of those regs) and then sort out the refuelling and the abandonment of kers etc etc. That was the agreement. No budget cap. The teams can all go do what they want – Manor want to run on 40million go do it. Seeing as the new entrants need a whole bunch of help from the existing teams to get their cars to reality, I’m assuming that the scope for new teams to insist on a budget cap is zero.
But I suppose we fans must never ever underestimate the ability of the sport we love to descend into farce at the earliest opportunity. And to think I sneer at the wrestling thingy you see on the telly…
When will this all be done? Being a fan of this sport is entirely unrewarding. Here in Canada, I have to try to get up to see a race on television, and every day I read about the sport — my main connection now that Montreal has been dropped — I’m left feeling disgusted by the divisive politics.
Is it just me or does it seem everyone’s a little too disinterested in this year’s championship because Ferrari and McLaren aren’t leading it? It seems they’re taking this negative energy and turning on the sport itself, trying to hack it apart by arguing about every single detail imaginable.
F1, this is official notice: If this continues, I’m gone, even if Jacques makes a comeback.
It seems such a shame that the main players can’t put their substantial egos aside for the good of the sport and sort it out.
The current lot (in both FOTA and the FIA) need to realise that F1 existed before them and it will exist after them (even if the teams survive like Ferrari, McLaren and Williams the personnel change).
I’ve just read on the BBC that the FOTA 8 walked out of a meeting with the FIA today – this is getting ridiculous. They are all looking nothing less than stupid now. Get. It. Sorted.
[…] New teams on collision course with FOTA? – James Allen on F1 "This gives this long running saga a new twist. in June Mosley was all for the FOTA teams signing up for 2010 and then changing the rules from within. Instead FOTA announced a breakaway series and forced Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone around the table to agree a peace deal. As far as FOTA were concerned the deal agreed in Paris was for them to go away and sort out the rules for 2010 among themselves, which would then be ratified by the FIA. This meant the death knell of the budget cap, the very reason why the new teams signed up." (tags: politics FOTA fia maxmosley BudgetCap costs 2010 regulations bernieecclestone) […]
Mosley can’t be trusted to be a janitor. Get rid of him and the FIA. Start a new series and be done with it. If the FIA had any honor they would remove Mosley. Today’s FOTA statement said that the Paris resolution by the WMSC agreed that the 2010 rules would be the 2009 rules. Now Max is shifting again. Enough with the whole gang. The FIA and WMSC cant seem to reign their renegade dog so why deal with any of them. [mod]
The teams are dumb. This was well known before. [mod] Can a leopard change his spots? Max’s signature on a contract means nothing. There is no new Concorde signed, Paris’ agreement has been ignored by the FIA/Max so it is WAY PAST time to GET THE “F” OUT and start a HONEST series.
Hi James,
I have a question: What was principally agreed between FIA (Max),FOM (BCE) and FOTA (Luca Di) at the WMSC meeting convened in Paris ?
Was is not that FOTA can design the regulations, which then will be ratified by the FIA Senate; this process being exclusive of the Budget teams ?
[“They’ve got the rules they want and the stability; we’ve got the new teams in and the cost reduction,” said Mosley. “So that’s very helpful.” (Source: Autosport)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76499%5D
Kindly elaborate if my understanding is not correct.
Yes. Mosley and the FIA people have been strong in reminding us that FIA is a democracy. Makes me laugh though cos haven’t we seen this before – not letting (FOTA) to vote. Maybe Bernie’s Hitler comments was about this – he knew beforehand that Max was upto his [mod] tricks again and was trying to understand him.
Seems like Mosley is simply carrying on with the ‘divide-and-conquer’ tactics. He’s using the new teams and Williams and Force India to try to drive a wedge into FOTA.
As much as I think it would have damaged F1 to carry on with the split, I think FOTA caved too soon. I’ll believe the FIA-FOTA deal when Mosley is out the door. Until then, anything is possible.
The big loser in all of this: the fans. Despite what popular opinion seems to be (largely wishful thinking, I’d say), I believe neither FOTA, FIA, or FOM really care much about the fan. It’s all about the money and the control.
So it now emerges that the FOTA teams aren’t offical entries and are only accorded an observer status and have no voting rights in todays meeting.
I was looking back and didn’t the FIA issue a confirmed entry list which included the FOTA teams as well as Williams, Force India, Campos, Manor and USF1? So what has happened in the interim to change this? This is getting so confusing for any die hard fan of F1 to understand what is going on let alone the casual viewer who is getting more and more likely to switch off!
James, your insight into what has happened today is going to be needed more than ever, cause I’ve no idea whats going on in this sport anymore!
Well the latest news out of Germany is helping turn F1 back into a farce……
In normal business terms if the CEO had had the same publicity on one’s private live they would have had to have stepped down so why is Max still playing with the teams and rules.
My understanding of the Paris agreement is that the FOTA teams had entered for the 2010 season, apparently not according to Charlie Whiting…. What is going on, 69 year old men acting like school boys yet again.
It’s about time we had some sensible, passionate and competent leadership within F1, be it independent from the FIA then all the better.
The trouble is the sport is loosing fans by the truck load, the sport is pricing itself out of the market for ordinary passionate fans including myself who has been an ardent fan since the late 1960s when cars were cars and drivers were drivers and everyone seemed to get on and enjoy themselves, all I can say is thank goodness for the excellent TV coverage from BBC1 which for me is the only alternative as a spectator to see any racing.
I have recently become involved in Classic Bike Racing in the UK and can go along for a weekend at Brands Hatch for 12 GBP and watch 42 of the most fantastic, fast and furious racing, it’s become better than F1 because I can actually touch it, smell it and feel it and best thing of all NO POLITICS.
PLEASE Mr Moseley and FOTA clean up your act if for no other reason than F1 has millions of fans wishing that you would all grow up………
I think that FOTA have been the voice of reason for the good of the sport and solid business from the beginning and most fans support that from what I have seen and read from around the world. You have all of course seen that too. How jaw dropping that Max is still being a troll on the sport after promising to go away and now causing even more problems because of his ego or maybe just mental illness! Bernie? Thanks for all your help this last week.
Look I was really hoping like most that things would be sorted but my god! FOTA should just DO IT NOW, no more chances and let the FIA and FOM come cry to them. I along with all the best teams, drivers, sponsors, tech, will follow and they bloody know it. Then watch Max and Bernie be gone as fast as a click of the heels! There is no danger of what happened in the US happening in F1. The reason is that Tony George held the high card attraction for sponsors which is what spit the money (it was all he had). The new F1 would have the top two attractions just for starters – Monaco and the red machine.
I would even prefer to, sad as it would be, lose a year to rebuild F1 and get it made right.
Cheers
[…] New teams on collision course with FOTA? We are in for a fascinating weekend in Germany as we look to see whether Red Bull has its nose in front on all circuits […] […]
so after the FIA confirmed in an official press release that 13 teams were entered into next years championship (and that ferrari and red bull were always entered, despite their disagreement), the FIA are now saying that there are only 5 teams entered, and only these teams can input into discussions regarding the changing of next years rules. didn’t max basically force them to sign up as the only way of changing next years rules?
he simply cannot be trusted. he had no interest in making this work for the good of the sport and the fans, he just wanted to demonstrate that he still had control. this delay has eaten into FOTA’s time to organise a new race series but hopefully they are still able to.
in the meantime,
VOTE ARI